Category: Teaching Defensive Excellence

Defensive Excellence Q&A: Tucker Frawley, Minnesota Twins Infield and Catching Coordinator

This is the 12th interview in our series of articles on coaching defensive excellence the last two years, likely our final one for 2023.

This season, we’ve talked to people from a few different nationalities, three female coaches working with male and female baseball players, and the head of a baseball academy focused specifically on defense. You can find the full series here.

This week we talk to Tucker Frawley. He’s the Twins minor league infield and catching coordinator. Tucker played one year in the pros and then went into coaching. Prior to joining the Twins he was the associate head coach at Yale. One of Tucker’s focal points, which you’ll read about here, is integrating data into coaching.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Mark: What does defensive excellence mean to you and how do you go about teaching it?

Tucker: Defensive excellence is constantly trying to perform at a level that is an elite clip relative to our peers and I think that over the course of the last several years, that bar may have changed.

What my offseason job is to do a whole bunch of research to ensure that we have MLB-level benchmarks that our minor leaguers are in tune with for every part of their game. I want them to know when they’re within an MLB spectrum in any of the tools or KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) that we want them to highlight and hone in their training.

I want them to know when they’re at an MLB average in each of those areas. And we ultimately want to get to a point where we can get them to an elite level in each of those areas. Now, obviously getting to an elite level in all of them is a tall order, but they’re still just good north stars of sorts for us to try to follow and pursue.

At the very least, I want to give them consistent knowledge of results from month to month and make sure that they understand just how they’re performing relative to the average MLB player and the MLB spectrum as a whole.

Mark: Can you explain this using a specific example?

Tucker: The best example I can give is arm strength.

I use the term KPI. Another word for it, is just the tools that we want to own in each of our players. So, let’s use arm strength as an example for a tool that we’ve highlighted as a high-level KPI for an infielder, or a really important tool for an infielder.

A really simple way of going about this is going on Baseball Savant or any of the other great resources out there and getting a sense of what that MLB spectrum is. And I think we highlighted for shortstops that the best arm velo was around 98 miles an hour, Oneil Cruz. But on the low end of that spectrum is a guy like Dansby Swanson, who gets it up as high as 83 or 84. And both those guys are phenomenal defenders, very good shortstops. It’s a healthy thing to remind guys, if we have guys that are outside of that range, let’s say they’re only able to get their arm strength up to 81 or 82, they now have a good sense of just how much more improvement they need to be considered MLB caliber.

I think the average MLB arm strength, the average top velo that shortstops show is about 86 miles an hour, and that’s one that we hold every single one of our shortstops to. That’s again just a KPI, a tool of sorts that we’re constantly trying to gauge our monthly performance with, both in practice and in games.

Mark: Ok, so how do you go about teaching technique?

Tucker: Technique-wise, I want to make sure that everything, every technique that we are stressing, it still comes back to something objective. The best way for me to explain this is, there’s a lot of infielders out there, both at the college and pro level, that aesthetically look phenomenal.

They are smooth, they have great arm actions, they’re what we prototypically want to see out of an infielder. But when you actually pay attention to how often they catch it, and how accurately they throw it, they are the furthest thing from an efficient infielder.

From an infield standpoint, I want us to chase aesthetics less, and efficiency more, and I often equate things to hitting, where there are just some hitters who have a knack of consistently finding the barrel and hitting the ball hard, and when they’re able to do that, there’s usually some freedom that the hitting coaches give them.

I think as an infield coach, we need to just hit pause on a lot of the aesthetics that we’ve been accustomed to wanting to see out of our infielders. And if it comes back to something objective, that we know is ultimately going to help them make more plays and collect more outs, then I am all for that.

To use a catcher analogy and not just focus solely on infield: Blocking is a really good topic where we have an emotional attachment to a ball that hits the dirt and squares us up in the chest and the catcher recovers and keeps the guy from moving on to the next base. When in reality, if we just pick that clean or our depth is good enough where we don’t even have to pick it, it’s in a sense just as efficient as the ball that we were accustomed to calling an actual block.

Mark: Can you give an example of what it’s like to teach someone who’s a visual learner versus someone who is not? Maybe walk us through the different learners you deal with and how you talk to them.

Tucker: All of us have learned some things through conversation. We’ve learned other things through visual aids. And what I try to do is equip myself with that whole gamut, that whole buffet of things and what ultimately sticks is going to be completely unique to the topic at hand and what clicks for that player.

So for some guys, showing them an actual visual of what it means to throw from different slots and the role that posture plays in impacting that slot and the role that their feet play in impacting that posture. Sometimes seeing video is a great thing. Sometimes using still shots is a great thing.

Sometimes it’s getting them up on their feet and putting their bodies in that posture with our hands and helping them hold positions and feel exactly what we want them to feel like. We’ve done it all with guys, some of which has clicked, and if it hasn’t, we’ve moved on to the next one and we’ve tried the next-best thing.

But even just using that as an example, throwing from different slots and when to use it. We’ve tried to show our guys in a number of different teaching points and teaching aids to hopefully make sure that we’re not leaving anyone behind who may be in the minority in terms of how they’re learning it.

Mark: What’s the hardest thing to teach a pro at the various positions that you’re teaching them?

Tucker: The drop step is the hardest thing. When we basically look at balls within 10 feet of infielders and the ones that they actually kick that are still really high probability, they’re the rockets that hit the infield dirt first.

So that low line drive, if their feet don’t gain any or lose any ground, it eats them up. Now, they may have good enough hands where they’re able to stab at it and get it.

The guys that are able to work backwards, lose ground, and actually create an easier-to-handle hop, those are the ones that make it look easy. But, when we bring that over to the practice setting, it is the hardest thing to replicate.

You’re talking about balls that are rockets, so if you’re using real balls you’re putting them in harm’s way.

Second, if they know it’s coming, it is so much different than developing the reaction that comes with that play. So, we’ve tried everything under the moon but I have not felt like we’ve really nailed any drill series that really hones that ability to read a low line drive, give ground, and make it basically a long hop that’s a lot easier to handle than when your feet just kind of stay put.

That is far and away something that applies to every one of the four infield positions that I have not been able to crack the code on.

Mark: What’s the most fun thing to teach?

Tucker: The most fun thing to teach is actually showing these guys what separates the below-average infielder from the average and the above-average from the average.

We use a football analogy a lot where it’s like we’re an NFL kicker offered 30 kicks a day, about the same number of ground balls that we usually get as infielders. And we asked them how they would kick, and some guys will reference the fact that the most frequent kick is an extra point after a touchdown.

But when you actually look at field goal kickers, even the worst field goal kicker in the NFL misses that one once a season. It’s basically automatic for guys in the NFL, and it’s the 40-yarders, the 50s, the 60s, the kicking it from the hash marks, or in inclement weather, that ultimately separates the best from the average.

And, for us as infielders, it’s teaching them that the more rangy plays, the ones that force them to field with one hand, or their backhand, or when they’re pressed for time, those are the separator plays.

On the pro side, it’s really difficult to really squeeze that into a weekly work week, where these guys are forced to play every night. But it forces us to be creative, it forces us to be really cognizant of our workloads, and when we’re squeezing those types of drill packages in, and how we do it. But once that lightbulb goes off in their head that the routine ground ball isn’t going to be the thing that separates me from my peers in the big leagues, then it’s fun to talk about how we’re going to attack things with them from there.

Mark: Is there a player for whom you could point to and say, wow, that guy did a really good job of learning how to play defense.

Tucker: Edouard Julien. A guy that, early on in his career, it was a huge question mark where his defense would ultimately lead him.

Anyone who watches him, I don’t think anyone would consider him for a Gold Glove right now. But, if you knew where Eddie was three or four years ago, even if you knew where he was at the beginning of this season, he’s a rising star because of his work ethic.

He’s taken all the talking points that we’ve had relative to those separator areas that we mentioned earlier, and the drills and what they mean. He has been as much of a student as anyone we’ve had. He’s the poster child for what a really good, purposeful training plan can do for you. And I really hope that people see that even years down the road, because again, he’s a rising star. He’s getting better every single month, let alone every single year.

And he’s the first guy that comes to mind

Mark: If you were gonna give a blanket piece of advice to adults coaching kids with regards to defense and I’m talking kids of Little League age, what would you say?

Tucker: Yeah, my son’s actually 10, so that’s a great question.

I have a very healthy viewpoint right now because I have that 10-year-old, I’m able to see big leaguers, and everything in between. For my son, my No. 1 goal with him, no matter whether I’m the one coaching him, or he’s playing a game for someone else is making sure he’s having enough fun to want to be back out there the next time.

In terms of the actual technique it’s pretty darn similar to the way I practice with our minor leaguers. Now, the speed at which we go, I try to match it up with the speed of his game. But the tools that we’re asking him to use in terms of dealing with two hands, and one hand, backhand and being able to throw on the run and range to his left and right, it’s all the same stuff. It’s just done on a smaller field with balls that aren’t hit as hard, and with a lot more encouragement and pleasantries along the way.

He’s a catcher right now and I want him to be able to receive from all stances and understand how important blocking is in addition to receiving and throwing, since he’s at a level where those things mean that much more.

And then as he grows up, hopefully that skill set he learns to apply it in a way that is a little bit more in line with whatever level he’s playing and whatever coach he’s playing for. But, it’s super similar. So the biggest advice is just make sure that the speed of the game is matched up with what those kids see at whatever level they find themselves in.

September 19, 2023

Defensive Excellence Q&A: Beth Woerner (Lebanon Valley College Assistant Coach)

Beth Woerner began coaching at Lebanon Valley College, an NCAA Division III school in Pennsylvania in August of 2021. She is believed to be the only full-time female baseball assistant coach in the NCAAs.

As you’ll read in our interview below, Beth’s comes to baseball with a fresh perspective, having not played it or softball in college. And a lot of her knowledge is self-taught. In her previous stop at University of Charleston, West Virginia she spent a lot of time coaching infield, so that was the focus of our discussion with her here. We also talked briefly about one of her other passions, coaching excellence in baserunning.

Follow Beth on Twitter at @beth_woerner

This is the latest article in a series in which we’ve interviewed a diverse group of coaches about teaching defensive excellence. To read the others in the series, including 2 others with female coaches, click here.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Mark: Can you explain your playing background to me?

Beth: Sure. I haven’t played a ton. I didn’t play softball in college. I just graduated college and I found out about a women’s baseball league in the D.C./ Baltimore area called the Eastern Women’s Baseball Conference. So I started playing with them about 6 or 7 years ago, just for fun. I’m not very good at playing baseball, but because of that, I started to figure out, started to research. How do I get better at this? How do I make this play? How do I not mess up so much? Which is pretty much what coaching is, is figuring out how do we get better? How do we make fewer mistakes?

Mark: So what was the research that you did?

Beth: It started out with just like really simple stuff, like how to field a ground ball, what footwork should I use? But then I started just watching the game differently, seeing the little things that happen that you may not think about when you’re just watching for fun. I’m starting to notice a lot of little things, little specifics in the footwork, specifics in the way that people throw.

So that was sort of where I started. I played pretty much everywhere, second base, outfield, pitched a little bit, caught a little bit in the women’s league, which is a great opportunity.

It’s not as extensive as a lot of other coaches, but I think there’s a lot of value in it.

Mark: What does defensive excellence mean to you?

Beth: I think defensive excellence is just being able to be the best player that the player can possibly be, whether that is making all the routine plays or making routine plays and some excellent plays. But I think that is extremely individual on the player.

Mark: Okay, so who were the players you watched that most influenced you in trying to get to that point yourself?

Beth: My brother played third base as a kid, so I’ve watched a lot of good infielders play. One of my favorite players is Andrelton Simmons. Watching him play defense is a lot of, a lot of fun. He’s really good and makes really excellent plays all the time, was always locked into the game. So those are probably a few people there.

Mark: Who are the people that have influenced you as a coach?

Beth: All the ones that have encouraged me to continue coaching. Some of those people are the coach I currently work for, which is Jonas Fester here at Lebanon Valley College. He was a great infielder himself.

We have a lot of conversations about good defense and how to be a better coach, not just on defense, but in general. And I owe him a lot of credit for everything that I’ve done. And then also the coaches that I worked with at the University of Charleston under Robbie Britt, who is now at Eastern Michigan, and Pablo Cabrera, who’s now with the Red Sox.

Pablo and I worked together as infield coaches together at Charleston and we learned a lot together. I’m sure some of the stuff that I’ll talk about here in a minute is stuff that he and I worked on together and came up with together.

He played infield in college and was a very good infielder and I had a background in teaching but didn’t know that much about infield. So we came from two very different backgrounds and worked together to create the way that we both think about infield now.

About Beth Woerner

– Full-time assistant baseball coach, Lebanon Valley College (NCAA Division III)

– One of few women working in college baseball coaching

– Experience comes from playing in adult baseball leagues

– Graduate of James Madison University

Mark: What’s an example of something you work on with players now?

Beth: It’s hard to say because it’s different with every player. Every player is working on different little things. But I think one of my favorite things to teach and to work on with players is the infield prep step, which is whatever the player is doing before the pitch. I think it’s fun because every player is a little bit different in what they feel.

And it’s really about what they feel. Matching that to what they’re actually doing, so there’s creativity required to become good at it. That’s true of all parts of the fielding a ground ball and making a play. There’s little things that players can do to maximize what they’re good at and limit their weaknesses.

Mark: Okay, can you pick out a player and go into the specifics with his prep step?

Beth: I love working with third basemen.

One of our third basemen last year, he was working with his prep step and he was a little bit early, which means that he wasn’t reacting as quickly as he could because he was heavy on his feet at the point when he was making the decision to move, once he knew where the ball was going.

So we worked with him and it was a lot of fun because every now and then he would say, hey, I’m still a little off. Can we check in? And then we would work with some video and check in where he was at and then he could work on it in his drills once he knew that he was a little late and needed an adjustment.

Beth: When I first got to Lebanon Valley, I wasn’t really sure how the team was gonna treat me and he accepted me as somebody who could help him get better right away. So that was a pretty special moment for me as a young coach that this player wants to get better and wants to use all of his resources … which is me, to get better.

Mark: What else have you discovered in working with players?

Beth: This is true for all coaches—some players connect with you better and some don’t, but I think most players, once they realize that this person wants to help me get better, they’re going to do what they feel like they need to in order to get better.

Sometimes you don’t necessarily have to have the closest connection with every single player because they’ll teach each other what you teach them.

It’s really cool they’re taking what you’ve taught them and applying it. And not only applying it, but helping other people also learn how to do those things better.

Mark: Did your experience with him get you credibility with everybody else?

Beth: Yeah, younger players, sometimes don’t even know how to interact with coaches in general. Once they see this is how this player, who they trust, trusts me and is working with their coach, it’s a model for them on how to communicate with a coach.

Mark: What’s the hardest part about teaching defense?

Beth: I think the hardest part and the coolest part are the same answer. Every single player is different. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

Everyone feels the way their body moves, the way they do things differently. Everyone understands the game differently. So that makes it difficult because every single player is a new challenge. That makes it a lot of fun because you’re always trying to work with that player and figure it out.

Hey, this is exactly what you’re feeling. This is exactly what you’re doing. This is how we can get better. There’s no formula or special secret sauce to getting a player better because everyone is different and has different experiences.

Mark: Okay. How have you used technology and data in your coaching?

Beth: We’re a Division III school, so we don’t have as many resources as some of the other programs. But we do still use a lot of information, and we still use the research that other teams and organizations do to inform decisions.

And for the defense specifically, we will track some things. We’ll track the plays that our players are making. We’re actually in the process of figuring out how we want to do that this year. And then we use that as feedback for our players.

Mark: You have a master’s in strategic leadership. How does that come in handy in coaching?

Beth: We talked about leadership in all different kinds of organizations and how things are organized for leaders. Knowing how leaders work is helpful in knowing that I want to do things how this leader does them or don’t want to do things how this leader does them.

Vault leads aren't new but teaching them is an art.

Teaching vault leads is a challenge because everyone understands timing a little bit differently, each pitcher looks different, and each person moves differently.

Vault leads can make everyone a base stealer. https://t.co/4pSZUKDXba

— Beth Woerner (@beth_woerner) April 11, 2023

Mark: I know you also teach baserunning, and you just did a talk on it at Saberseminar, and I saw the tweet that you sent after Ken Rosenthal wrote about vault leads.

So, why don’t you give us the perspective on the vault lead from the baserunner’s side, and then how you would stop it defensively from a pitcher, catcher, fielder combo?

Beth: The vault lead give you an advantage when a pitcher’s quicker, has a quicker delivery. It helps you to get a better jump and our players who have a good feel of it, they actually have an easy time getting back to the base no matter what part of the vault they’re in. That’s the difficult part – that it’s easier for a pitcher to catch you off-balance.

I think the players who are very good at it and understand the way that it’s supposed to work in terms of timing are able to easily implement the vault leads.

It also is useful against the left-handed pitcher because you might have a hard time getting a good jump. Vault leads are difficult because it requires a lot of creativity on the player’s part to know exactly what they’re able to do and how to do it and know exactly where they are in space at those points where there may be more risk involved in getting that vault jump.

Our players really enjoyed learning how to do them. We’ll play some development games that don’t count towards anything, but both teams are just there to get better.

One of our players who isn’t really a base stealer was like, ‘Hey coach, I’m just going to try a vault lead. I want to see what happens.’ He stole the base and came back to me and said that was the best jump he ever got in his life. ‘I felt like I got there so fast and was running so fast.’

The benefit of it is it’s able to give you a little extra momentum, just like if you’re driving and you come to a stoplight, you stop all the way at the stoplight, it’s going to take you longer to keep going. But if you keep rolling just a little bit, it’s going to be easier to accelerate once the light turns green.

It’s the same kind of concept, but with running. If a full vault isn’t comfortable, maybe we can do half vault, or maybe we can do a walking lead, or some kind of other lead that gets that momentum without having to do the full vault.

Players love getting creative. They get to make it their own, how they want to do the vault.

And then, on the defending it side, it’s a lot of fun here at practice, actually, when we practice it. Because the pitchers, they really want to pick off runners, especially some of our faster runners who are able to get further off the base.

So we’ll get competitive in practice and have pickoff practices where the base runners are practicing getting their leads and the pitchers are practicing pickoffs to see how much momentum they can get, how far off the base, and the pitchers are working on mixing up their timings.

Having a different delivery, maybe a slightly higher leg kick or a slightly lower leg kick. There’s all kinds of different things to to hold the runners.

And what’s cool about practicing it with our pitchers is that sometimes, hey, I can tell that you’re gonna pick off because you turn your head a different way when you’re picking off, and we’ll tell our pitchers that so that they can get even better.

Mark: What are your aspirations as a coach? Long term?

Beth: This is a tough question because I really don’t know and I debate it with myself all the time. I love college baseball when I first started, my original dream was to work in the big leagues like everyone else.

I think I will likely end up doing quite a few different things in the future, but I definitely want to stay working with players and I want to keep working with the best players that I can.

Mark: Last question: Is there any point that you wanted to make that I didn’t give you a chance to make?

Beth: I love working with the players and I love getting creative with players to help them learn what they’re able to do and how to be the best player they can be. The creativity piece is a lot of fun.

Anybody can coach. Even if you don’t know every single little thing there is to know about baseball, you’ll figure it out.

September 5, 2023

Defensive Excellence Q&A: Petr Baroch, Czech National Baseball Teams

What is it like to coach defensive excellence in European baseball?

Petr Baroch helps run the Czech Republic national baseball program for ages 15 to 21. Petr, now 41 years old, previously played professionally for three years in the Netherlands. He talked to us about his experience in coaching baseball in his home country. The interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Click here to see our other 7 interviews in this series of pieces about coaching defensive excellence.

Mark: Where are you located and what is your baseball background?

Petr: I’m the director of the Czech national baseball teams and I’m based in Kladno (a mining city in the north central part of the country, one that produced NHL legend Jaromir Jagr).

I take care of the Czech national teams under-12, under-15, under-18, and under-23, seniors. I help with the tournaments for the guys and the European championships. If it’s possible, then I can help the team as an infield coach and hitting coach. Last year, I worked with the under-15 team. Mike Griffin was the head coach.

Mark: Ok. So you do coach defense, right?

Petr: Yeah. I’m the defense coach and the hitting coach. I can be the pitching coach too sometimes.

Mark: Okay. So what does defensive excellence mean to you?

Petr: With a good defense, you have a better chance to win. So it’s important to the team and it’s important to me.

When I will talk about the players, I want the guys who have the correct positioning, who read the ball and have the right timing for making plays. And I want guys that have some athletic skills and that are smart.

Mark: So how do you teach that to people?

Petr: I have videos of basic drills that we want for the guys. We want them all to be on the same page. We want them to be making better decisions every day.

Mark: How much do these kids know when they come to you? Were they playing another sport or are we to a point where they’ve been playing baseball their whole life?

Petr: When I was young, I played so many other sports. I never saw guys playing baseball when they were under 7. Now, I’ve seen a lot of change. So many players are playing only one sport. That’s not good for us because we want guys who are athletes.

With our Kladno team, we have so many people who could make it in another sport. I think it’s important for young guys to play basketball or hockey. We have two guys who play hockey and they’re different because they can move, they’re more athletic and smarter than the other guys.

But so many kids don’t have time for [multiple sports] because they go to school and then are running to practice and then they come home and study. They don’t have practice and games at their school. Everything we do is done in a hurry and that’s not good for us.

Mark: Do the kids that grow up in the Czech Republic, do they all wanna be like (NHL star) David Pastrňák or are they familiar with current baseball players?

Petr: Everybody wants to be like Pastrňák, or Jagr maybe some want to be a goalkeeper. Their family may be thinking that baseball is great for you and your body, but you will enjoy it for a couple of years and then you have to go to work, because you won’t make money for it.

When someone asks me if it’s possible to make baseball your job, I tell them yes, but you have to go to Japan or the United States and go to school there. But even if he doesn’t get a contract, it will be very good for his life. He’ll learn to speak English and he’ll be a better person. He will know more people.

Baseball is a big community. I’m very glad that I was a player and now I am a coach and I hope that I will be helpful for the young players.

We have programs with the Czech Baseball Association that help guys go to the United States, pay for flights and look for contacts for them. Mike Griffin knows people who ask if our players can come to the U.S. I help them make the decisions.

Mark: What’s the hardest thing about trying to teach the kids?

Petr: The mentality, because baseball is very hard for kids When you have 10 times at bat, and you’re good three times, you’re hitting .300 and you’re viewed as good. But seven times out of 10, you’re bad. But that’s normal in baseball.

But I think that the baseball and life is almost the same because sometimes you can mess up a situation in baseball, but that situation can help you for the future.

Defense is the same because the goal is to not make so many errors and mistakes. And if you make mistakes, you have to be better next time.

Mark: What are their favorite things to do on defense?

Petr: Almost everyone wants to play shortstop, pitcher, and catcher because they understand that it’s very important. When they’re younger, they think that they play outfield because they’re bad. But I always said no, you’re very important to us. I think that’s an important job for a coach, make everyone feel they’re important. When you’re older, you understand the importance of playing the outfield.

Mark: What are the things that you teach them in the outfield to kind of get them started?

Petr: How to catch the ball, first step moving back, how to do a transfer from glove to hand, hitting the cutoff man with a four-seam throw.

Mark: What do you teach them about shortstop right at the start?

Petr: It’s different by age. At first, basic skills, like initial move, first step, throwing. As they get older, we make the drills harder, where they’ll get on their knees and have to catch and field balls while on their knees. And also, how to line up the ball with their chin and their eyes.

Mark: Okay. When the kids watch video of players making plays, who are the fielders they want to be?

Petr: Everyone wants to be Shohei Ohtani. Everybody here liked the World Baseball Classic.

On defense they want to be Derek Jeter.

Mark: What’s everyone’s favorite drill?

Petr: They like playing “21 outs” [you have to make plays on ground balls, a combination of single-out plays and double plays to move on to the next inning]. It’s fun for the players but it can take a long time. Everyone likes it when you make it like a game.

Mark: What kind of resources do you have? Do you have enough fields and equipment?

Petr: For our older kids, almost every big city has a baseball field and that is very important for us. We’ll be hosting the European championship and we have enough fields. For the young players, I think that we have enough fields but practice sometimes is a problem because it’s tough to fit everyone on one field.

Mark: What defensive thing do you like teaching most?

Petr: Bunt defense, and also how to handle and first and third situations.

This is hard for the kids. They have to understand when to go to second base, and then to always go to first base. The players have to understand their spots on the field and what they have to do in each situation.

Mark: What do you specifically like most about coaching kids?

Petr: I like teaching situations, like if there’s nobody on base you have to stay here. If it’s a stronger hitter, you have to move two steps to this side or that side

You can say, “Okay, this guys is very fast,” you have to make two steps and a strong throw to first [on a ground ball].

I also love that we have tablets [IPads] now and that I can tell kids “I will show you how to fix your problems.”

Mark: What does the future of baseball look like for the Czech Republic?

Petr: I think that we are going the right way. Since the WBC, we’ve been having people ask us – this sport you play, is it the same sport as in Japan? Every year we have more and more people in baseball. Once you know it, it becomes your life. Every day you see different situations. Every game is different.

May 25, 2023
Defensive Excellence Q&A: Carlos Muñoz, Catching Coach

Carlos Muñoz is a native of Venezuela who moved to the states as a teenager and began his career as a Spanish-language TV anchor and then sportswriter in Houston. A career change netted him an opportunity with the Astros as an associate scout and then nine seasons as a bullpen catcher (even though Muñoz had only minimal collegiate catching experience).

He’s since been an associate scout with the Reds and was the catching coach for Team USA at this year’s World Baseball Classic. Now, he works with catchers in the area as both a volunteer baseball coach and private instructor to kids ages 8-17. He works with up to 21 kids per week.

We spoke to him as part of our series on coaching defensive excellence that began with four interviews last year and now two more this season. The interview has been edited for length and clarity. Thanks to Paul Carr of TruMedia Networks for the introduction.

Mark: What does defensive excellence mean to you?

Carlos: One thing I teach to my guys: You are a big wall behind the plate. If we have a situation where they have a runner on third base and we need to throw a breaking ball, like a low breaking ball to this batter, I trust you because we’ve been working on this. I’m not gonna worry about a passed ball or wild pitch because you’re gonna be keeping the ball in front of you and doing it for the team.

Mark: How did you learn to be an excellent defensive catcher?

Carlos: I caught three innings in college, in junior college. And it was because my junior college coach told me, ‘You know what, we’ve got somebody at second base, third base is covered. Why don’t you catch it today? And we’ll see what happens.’

The leadoff guy for the other team got on base and he ran on me and then I remember catching the ball, transferring the ball, and throwing as hard as I could to second base. And I got this guy out by five feet.

The second time I caught was when I was working with the Astros as a BP pitcher, shagging flies in the outfield, and the bullpen coach, Doug Brocail, said, ‘We need you in the bullpen.’ So, I was catching guys in the bullpen during BP. From that day on, everything started.

Mark: What do you tell kids about the mental side of catching?

Carlos: Well, first of all, I tell ’em, dude, you are my extra coach out there. I want you to call your game.

Sometimes they look at me like, ‘What do I do here, coach?’ And I say, I don’t know. It’s up to you. Let’s go be smart. And then they look again after that pitch.

I tell them that I want them to let me know when they notice their pitcher losing speed, like he’s getting fatigued. I want you to be their leader out there.

I’m going to correct you throughout the game, but don’t take it personal. Be smart. Alright? Read tendencies from the batters.

Mark: How do give a kid that’s eight years old, nine years old, that’s still kind of wondering if he should be doing this, the courage to squat behind the plate and take it?

Carlos: Be involved in the game pitch by pitch and be vocal and have fun. Don’t show negative body language if an umpire calls a pitch a ball. Talk to your pitchers, talk to your infielders, talk to the outfielders.

If you get hit, it’s part of the process. If you get hit and then you cry, it’s part of the process. If you get hit and then you get scared, pick another position. It’s part of the process. I love catching. That’s what I tell them every day.

Mark: How do you teach blocking pitches?

Carlos: I tell them to get on their knees, show me their target. As soon as the ball hits your chest, make sure you go after the ball. Don’t let the ball run away from you.

I also tell him there’s no rules for blocking.

You might get to the side, to the left or the right, and then you keep the ball in front of you and you think that was an ugly block. That’s fine as long as you keep the ball in front, that’s what really matters. Don’t try to do too much.

Get there on time. Keep the ball in front. Don’t try to do too much.

Mark: How do you teach receiving the ball?

Carlos: Some guys, they show the target and then they show (the back of their hand), and then they drop the hand. I tell them that if they do that, they’re going to end up pushing away the outside pitch, turning a strike into a ball.

I teach them to have a pre-pitch target and then drop the hand, relax your body, locate the pitch, and go from there. I tell them from the chest to the shoulders that they have 100% control of the pitch. But what I care about is from (the waist) to the ankles. Because when the pitcher throws a low pitch, they can catch the ball and bring it up in one move.

Mark: How do you teach basestealing prevention?

Carlos: I’m coaching an under-14 team now and this is what I tell them. It’s like a basketball pickup game. I tell the second baseman, shortstop, and first baseman to know that the runner is taking a big lead. The guy getting to second base because one of you dropped the ball on that – that’s not acceptable.

The pitchers, they work hard during the week and when it comes to Friday and Saturday, they want to break the radar gun. They want to throw in the 80s. With a runner on first base, they say they’re going to screw the slide step. But you’ve got to go slide step and give your catcher an opportunity to throw.

Mark: What are the most common mistakes that you see kids that you try to fix with all the things that I’ve asked about?

Carlos: I will say it’s more consistency. We work on receiving and throws to the bases and even how we show the signs, because some catchers show signs with their knees wide open.

We went through everything, he did everything perfectly, but in games, he forgot. But we’ve got to be patient and look for consistency in everything.

Mark: Are there players who you show them video of – or they show video to you and say they want to be like them?

Carlos: Yeah, they say I like the way Jose Trevino or J.T Realmuto catches. So, I tell them to go do bullpens, catch a real pitcher (as opposed to a pitching machine) and do what J.T. and Trevino are doing. Show me your target, load or relax your body, and then go from there.

Mark: Do you have go-to drills?

Carlos: I have an eight-pound little medicine ball that I have them do a 10-minute warmup with. After 8 minutes, some guys, they’re like, ‘Oh my god.’

They catch the ball with two hands, and they do some full motion and footwork to second base, like six, seven reps. Okay, let’s do third base. Now let’s do first base. And then the last three, I want you to react to backpicking this guy on first base from your knees. And I put them in front of a brick wall and do the same thing. After 10 reps, they’re ready to go.

Mark: Do you do that with 8-year-olds too?

Carlos: Sure. I have this guy, he’s 10, he’s got some power, he’s got some real strength. So that a 2-pound ball for him.

Mark: Is there anything you’re planning to work on with catchers more?

Carlos: Some guys, they tend to frame strikes, like they catch the ball here (in the zone), a perfect pitch, and then they go from here (in the zone) to here (moving it away from the zone).

I’m like, dude, didn’t you notice that was a perfect pitch from your pitcher? If the pitch is in front of your mask, leave it there.

I’m trying to get more consistency. Consistency, because you can teach, you can spend 15 to 20 minutes on receiving or even more. And then these guys, they go back to the field, to the real action, and then they completely forget about it.

So, I’m trying to get to how I can get guys to be more consistent on receiving. I show more videos on how big league guys are catching from pitch No. 1 to pitch No. 95 with the same receiving consistency.

Mark: Is there anything else that you want to address?

Carlos: For those catching coaches out there, just try to teach the consistency side of the game, just keep it simple.

I have so many kids telling me that a catching coach told them to do this (like blocking and then sliding to the left or right). No, you’re doing too much. If you do that, the ball is going to bounce away. Keep it simple.

Mark: You have a large knowledge base for someone who never caught.

Carlos: It’s all about educating yourself if you want to be the best. If you see a catching coach on Twitter or Instagram and he’s in Alabama, ask him something. Don’t be afraid. Ask him why he’s doing what he’s doing in that drill. Ask in a nice way. Or ask what he recommends. You may know an answer, but maybe he gives you something different (you can follow Carlos on Twitter here and on Instagram here).

This is the fifth interview in Mark Simon’s series on the teaching of defensive excellence in baseball.

We’ve previously talked to Red Sox minor league infield coordinator Darren Fenster, Hawaii high school baseball coaching legend Dunn Muramaru, Nelson Cooper IV of the Pittsburgh Hardball Academy, and Loren Torres of Point Park University.

April 12, 2023
Q&A: Adam Everett Remember His Defensive Excellence & Pays It Forward

Former major league shortstop Adam Everett is a well-known and well-regarded figure in our world.

Everett was ‘the other guy’ in an article Bill James wrote comparing Everett’s defense with Derek Jeter’s. That article helped lay the groundwork for our flagship metric in which Everett fared very well, Defensive Runs Saved. He was an inaugural winner of our Fielding Bible Award in 2006, though he never won a Gold Glove.

Now retired, Everett is currently a minor league infield coordinator with the Phillies, helping coach the next generation of standout (and sometimes unheralded) defenders. We talked to him about how he played and how he teaches.

Mark: What do you remember about how you played defense?

Adam: I took a lot of pride in that I had a really good routine and I stuck to it. What motivated me was I didn’t wanna be embarrassed. So, I worked hard at it. There’s no secret I wasn’t the offensive player of some of the shortstops of my time in Jeter and ARod, Tejada, and Nomar but there’s one thing that I could do just a little bit better than them, and that was play defense.

Mark: One of the things that the Jeter vs Everett article noted in particular was that you seemed to play a very deep shortstop, and I’m curious how you defined where you played and how positioning was important to you.

Adam: So that was all part of my routine. Getting to know the field where I was playing at, whether it was at home in Houston, or whether it was on the road, say in Atlanta or Philly or whatnot, that the bases were always the same, but the cuts were different. Back in the day, you had to find your place on the field, and that’s what I did. So with all that being said, I like to play deeper for angles. I knew that I didn’t have the strongest arm, but I had a good arm.

So I knew my limitations, but at the same time, it really doesn’t matter if I can’t get to that ball, I still can’t throw ’em out. But if I can get to it, I can still give myself a chance to throw ’em out. There’s this conception that you need to get around the ball, so you need to make this big, we call it the big banana turn and get around it and do that.

I tried to make sure my angles were precise, that everything was where I needed to be, as opposed to, okay, so I’m gonna try and make this big looping circle to go to first base. I wanted to minimize my movements is the best way to put it.

Mark: Were there any fields in particular that were challenging to play?

Adam: Turner Field was challenging for me. I don’t know why. Playing in the Metrodome was extremely difficult because the seats were actually higher than the field. There were no actual field level seats. So it, I always felt like I was down in a bowl more so than you actually were. So it threw my depth perception off.

Mark: What about Fenway?

Adam: Fenway didn’t bother me. They used to make the front of home plate so soft and so wet. I actually played a half step in there, And one thing about U.S. Cellular is that the ball never goes foul. You roll it down the third base line, it stays fair, it doesn’t go foul.

That was a Doug Mansolino trick. He taught me to check certain things, and that’s why I was pretty particular, I guess you could say.

Mark: How much of the positioning that you did was on your own as opposed to being instructed from the dugout?

Adam: I’d go over it every day. I’d go over the lineup every day. And the most important thing for me was, guys have their stats, their career stats, and they’re their career stats, and they’re gonna always be the same. But what I like to look at was what did he do the series before, the week before, possibly even 10 days to two weeks before we went to play them, or they came in to play us.

What do most guys try to do when they’re not going? Well, back in the day it was, they tried to hit the ball the other way. In Albert Pujols’ prime, if he only got one or two hits the series before, I knew that coming into Houston, he was going to hit the ball the other way. You got to know little things like that.

We’d go over the lineups every day and I’d want to know what we were doing in certain situations. What are we gonna do when we knock their pitcher out of the game. Who’s gonna pinch-hit. It was a little more in-depth than it is now. Because now they just say hey, here it is, go stand here. That took the instincts out of the game a little bit.

I played with Roger Clemens later on in his career and he’d always tell me, ‘Hey, I don’t have it yet. I don’t have my velocity yet.’

So play everybody a step to pull more so than you would. And he says, “I’ll turn around and let you know whenever I get it back.” and it would be the third inning and he would be 94 to 96, and I could move back to where normal was for whoever I was playing.

I heard it the other day. I was just sitting around, heard a bunch of people talking. They were talking about football. And how in depth it is, and baseball it’s easy and there’s not much to it. And I was sitting there, I didn’t say anything. I just kind of let it go. But there’s way more to baseball than people think.

What if Dansby Swanson’s hamstring is bothering him a little bit. He may not be running as well. Yep. So maybe I could play him a half step deeper. I could play him a half step one way or the other and take away a little bit more from him than he doesn’t already have.

Mark: I was just watching some plays with an enhanced camera angle and the shortstops look a lot more impressive on plays. Does TV do justice to what playing shortstop is like?

Adam: You’re gonna find out the guys that can really play shortstop this upcoming year. Some guys are gonna get exposed that don’t have that good first step. You’re gonna have to cover a little more ground. I like it that they’re taking [the shift] away, but at the same time, I hate the fact that they had to actually implement a rule where you take away the shift. That’s another conversation for another day.

You’re gonna see a lot more teams that are gonna compete now because if they have that shortstop second baseman that can cover a little more ground. You can maybe move your third baseman off the line a little bit and maybe you can either pinch that hole or move your short stop to a little more straight up and you can cover that six hole. And if your shortstop has any type of range, you can kind of get that left side now without having to move guys all around.

Mark: How aware were you of something like the Fielding Bible Award that you won?

Adam: I knew I won, but it wasn’t that popular then.

You look at the center fielder for San Diego [Trent Grisham]; won the Gold Glove and he hit under .200. That never happened back in my day. As a matter of fact, if you didn’t hit, or weren’t well known, you didn’t win a Gold Glove.

So I think it’s fantastic that it’s finally people are getting the credit that they’re due and I love the fact that they’re showing how they can impact a game and how saving a run is just as impactful as sometimes driving in a runner too.

So it’s pretty neat to see. I’m happy that they got it in the right direction.

Mark: Were you bummed that you didn’t win a Gold Glove?

Adam: Absolutely! I wanted to more than anything in the world. That was my goal every offseason. That’s why I trained for that. That’s the importance of playing every day.

I’m bummed, but I’m not complaining at all. I had a great career.

Mark: Do you have any special memories of great defensive plays?

Adam: I’ve got a couple that come to mind immediately. The first one is the double play we turned in Game 4 of the 2005 NLCS. That was pretty spectacular. I actually thought he was going to first base and he threw it to me.

And it was kind of one of those reactions like, oh goodness, here we go.

And I think this one was in 2004. We were in Colorado, Clemens is on the mound and in the second or third inning, I let a ball go right between my legs.

I can just feel him on my shoulder, like right behind me. And I don’t wanna turn around. I turn around, he’s standing at second base and he goes ‘Hey that’s alright. I got you. Let’s go right here.’

The next batter was Matt Holliday. He hits a line drive up the middle. I dive and catch it. It sticks in my glove. We go to the dugout and Clemens is waiting for me. He won’t even cross the foul line until I get there, and I’m thinking he’s gonna be all over me. He goes ‘That’s what I’m talking about!’

I don’t think I made another mistake behind him the rest of our time playing together. What made it memorable was the way he reacted and the way he picked me up right then.

Mark: How do you teach defense?

Adam: I love teaching. I love being around the guys. And I think what I do is I try to implement all of my experiences playing, all of my good and bad, and I try to implement that into molding them, but not trying to make them a clone of me or anybody else.

One of my sayings is – you think you’re a big leaguer? They all do, of course. And we’re talking the young guys, and I’ll do this with the older guys as well, but the young guys particularly, I tell them, ‘Let’s go right to Yankee Stadium. We’re bottom of the ninth, winning, 3-2, two outs. Name a fast guy on the team. OK, what time of the year do you think it is?’ I say:

‘We’re in the playoffs now, it’s October. It’s a little cool right? And everybody’s running on the pitch. Okay. It’s been raining for the last three innings. It’s misty and it’s cold. You’ve gotta pick this ball up and throw it to first base.’

They all kind of look at me with big eyes, and I say ‘That’s where I want to get you.’

If I can get you to where you can pick that ball and I can turn my back and start shaking hands with the other coaches, that’s when we’ve got something.

And they start to understand that there’s not secret sauce to playing infield. It takes work and it takes experience. It takes being out there and seeing balls and making mistakes, and then catching a ball that you weren’t, you didn’t even know you could get to, or you weren’t expecting to catch it. And you go, whoa, okay. That’s why we do what we do. And that’s what I love about it. I love seeing their reactions.

They start to feel it, they start to understand it and then they really start to feel and grasp the game, almost the game within the game. And they start to play the game where they’re thinking along with the manager. They’re thinking along with the pitcher and catcher, and they’re starting to see things and read swings.

Starting to think with the game, that’s what I really enjoy.

Mark: How do you know whether someone is struggling in an area? Do they give you any sort of reports data-wise or is it just eye test kind of stuff?

Adam: It’s both. They’ve got data on guys’ first steps. But there’s an eye test as well. You still gotta have somebody that can see it, understand it and explain it. And explain it in a way that they understand it.

And you can show ’em the video and you can show ’em the stats and you can see certain things and they go, okay. Cause it’s just another tool, right? If you use it properly, everything’s a tool and it’s all can be used for good. And you go here, this is why you’re not getting to those balls.

And then then you can explain the depths and you can explain that this is the reason why your range is last in the league. It just validates what you’re seeing.

You can actually show it to ’em on paper or you can show it to ’em on film. And they start to grasp it and they go ‘Oh, okay. Now I’m understanding.’

Mark: Is there an example from last season of working with a player and seeing improvement?

Adam: Hao You Lee (a Taiwan native who played infield in A and High-A as a 19-year-old last season). The biggest thing with him was having him understand the importance of the pre-pitch setup and the importance of how you go after a ball. And he finally got it. That made my heart sing.

Mark: Is there anything more you want to say about your current work?

Adam: I love the game. I think it’s the best game on the planet. And take a lot of pride in what I do.

December 12, 2022
Defensive Excellence Q&A: Point Park University’s Loren Torres

Loren Torres has been coaching college baseball for 25 years and will be entering his 13^th season as head baseball coach at Point Park University in Pittsburgh, an NAIA school at which he’s won six conference championships and been to the national tournament four times. He’s won more than 500 games in all.

Loren is a native of Puerto Rico and played baseball at Trinity International-South Florida. His teams have a geographic and ethnic diversity rarely seen in college baseball.

Loren is the fourth interview in Mark Simon’s series on the teaching of defensive excellence in baseball.

We’ve previously talked to Red Sox minor league infield coordinator Darren Fenster, Hawaii high school baseball coaching legend Dunn Muramaru and Nelson Cooper IV of the Pittsburgh Hardball Academy.

Loren: Our team is a melting pot. It’s pretty special to see all that come together for the greater good of the team when you are able to put a uniform on and everyone think of the name on the front and you could bypass color and culture and where you’re from and everything else.

Mark: How did that come about?

Loren: I grew up in Puerto Rico and in the Caribbean; baseball’s a way of life. It’s like soccer in Europe. It’s in your DNA. I grew up there and have contacts there. I went to high school and college in south Florida, which is a very diverse area. And I got more creative in terms of my contacts. Coaching 25 years, those expand. I was going to Venezuela when it was safer to go there. And I made contacts in Panama and Canada. We’ve been fortunate to tap into our resources and have a diverse team.

Those cultures come together for the greater good of the team.

Mark: What does defensive excellence mean to you?

Loren: Defensive excellence means that you’re not creating things like what you could consider a turnover in basketball or in football. We’re making sure that we’re making every routine play.

We’re a unit and we’re generating synergy. We talk a lot about a synergy. Some people underestimate the power of synergy.

Synergy is a law. When you have nine people playing defense that could play like there’s 15 out there and you have a dugout that’s involved in the game, and the whole thing is in sync. Then you could hold a team and give yourself an opportunity to win it on the offensive side.

Mark: What’s an example of synergy in action?

Loren: A ball is hit in the gap with a man on base and we have to do a double relay, and you’ve got the first baseman and third baseman moving and in the dugout, all the guys are saying “double relay!”

They read it right off the bat because they’re involved in each other’s jobs. They know they’re in sync with everything that’s going on and they know to keep each other accountable.

On that play a couple of years ago, we threw a guy out at the plate and won to go to the conference championship.

Mark: Okay. So how do you go about teaching the defense?

Loren: There’s a sense of community here, starting with the outfield.

When we’re in practice, everyone’s lined up on the warning track and the outfielders are playing balls live. The outfielders are never waiting around. We maximize our time on the field.

With ground balls, I’m a huge believer in repetition. A lot of people say quality over quantity, but the reality is that some people that say that are saying it because they don’t wanna do 300 ground balls.

We mix the quality and the quantity and we’ll take 300 ground balls. That’s not an exaggeration.

We have a structure. While we’re taking BP, we’re always working on something defensively. You have a coach who is a good leader, they’ll follow your lead. And if it means a lot to you, it’s gonna mean a lot to them. We talk a lot about being clean on defense and handling the baseball, playing at high level. But the preparation is where it comes from. When a routine grounder gets dropped at practice, we learn from it. We talk about concentration and making sure we’re giving it its due attention. It has to be every day. You can’t go through the motions.

Everything we do is game speed.

Mark: Do you have any specific drills or things that are unique to your program?

Loren: We do tons of drills, but what’s unique to us is the amount of ground balls that we take. That’s the first thing that shocks players when they come here. We’re hitting ground balls, hitting ground balls, hitting ground balls.

We do cone drills. Our feet are always moving. Good feet equal good hands. We have aggressive feet with soft hands. We want to cut off the distance between us and the baseball. Moving the feet forward is super important. With our outfielders, we always talk to them about keeping the double play in order [by getting the ball into second base on base hits].

90% of what we do is mimicking something to what it looks like in a game.

Mark: You have a diverse roster, with a lot of kids from Puerto Rico, Venezuela, and the Dominican. How were these kids coached before they got to you?

Loren: In the Caribbean, it’s hit, throw fast, play games, no practice. When they get here, they don’t know what a bunt defense is. They don’t know what a first and third defense is. The pitchers don’t control the running game.

We work individually with them and talk to them about some things, explain it, break it down, but it takes longer to learn those things like defensive mechanics. But they bring a certain fire that’s hard to find. It’s not a hobby for them. And when you get them to buy into the techniques and foundation, they become even better.

That’s hard to find. Once you get them to buy into the technique and the foundation, then they become even better.

We had a pitcher recently, Ruben Ramirez, who is now in the Royals organization. He didn’t pitch much the first two years. He threw 91 to 93 and couldn’t control the running game. He got better. He used to have a high leg kick and guys would steal on him a lot, and he’d get flustered if he gave up a hit. He got it all together his senior year and was NAIA Reliever of the Year.

Mark: Do you have any examples like that for defense?

Loren: They all come in pretty raw. We talk to them a lot about substance before style and that competitive strong comes before technique strong.

Every guy has some transformation. We care about the person first and because of that, they begin the transformation process. They understand that you want them to succeed. Once they do, they buy in and do what we ask. Some guys take awhile, sometimes it takes a couple of years. Everyone goes at a different pace.

Mark: If you could fix one thing about how young people are taught defense, like universally, what would it be?

Loren: Not to stay back on the ball. It eliminates so much room for air when you’re moving your feet and cutting the distance. And if you bobble the ball, you’ve still got time to make the play. Staying back on the ball creates a window for mistakes.

Mark: Is there anything else that you’d like to share?

Loren: You have to be competitive strong before you’re technique strong,

Mark: What’s competitive strong?

Loren: Competitive strong is that when the bell rings, you have to go out there and use your instincts. The whole thing has to kick in. You have to go and compete and help the team win and all the practice should be automatic. We work hard in simulating so that when the game comes, we’re just competitive strong.

We wanna have fun. We want the best parts of the day to be practice and to be games. They’ve got to be enjoying what they’re doing and be confident. Without confidence, they aren’t going to reach their potential. So we want them to be competitive strong before technique strong.

September 22, 2022

Defensive Excellence Interviews: Nelson Cooper IV, Pittsburgh Hardball Academy

Photo of Pittsburgh Hardball Academy infielder Brandon McClain-Banks, who is one of the program’s success stories, courtesy of Nelson Cooper IV

This is the 3rd in a series of interviews with people who teach defensive excellence. Our previous talks were with Hawaiian high school coaching legend Dunn Muramaru and Red Sox minor league infield coordinator Darren Fenster (click on the name to read the interview).

Nelson Cooper IV is the executive director and co-founder of Pittsburgh Hardball Academy, an organization whose goal is to remove barriers to entry while increasing diversity, equity & inclusion in baseball and softball to create positive outcomes on the field, in the community, and in life. The emphasis is on working with underserved and underrepresented kids.

Nelson played college baseball at North Carolina Central and is a volunteer assistant coach at Division II California University (Pa.).

Mark: Let’s start with this: What does defensive excellence mean to you?

Nelson: The easiest way to describe defensive excellence is the ability to consistently create efficient movements that allow players to catch and throw the ball correctly. Pretty simply, we teach our kids the importance of taking every rep.

On the field, whether it’s practice, whether it’s in the game, whatever they’re doing, we’re making sure that they’re taking efficient routes to the balls, being very efficient in their movements, and most importantly, being able to catch it and throw correctly.

It seems pretty simple, but we tell them before when we’re warming up and when we get loose that if we’re able to catch and throw the ball correctly in warmups, then we can translate that over to practice and then we can translate over to the games.

Mark: What was your origin story with defense?

Nelson: I started playing baseball when I was probably eight or nine. My mother and father met playing on my grandmother’s softball team. My mother played baseball in high school and then went on to play softball beyond high school and college. She made her high school baseball team as a middle infielder but got voted off the team by the other kids. She was a pioneer in Washington for girls in baseball. She moved to softball.

My mom was my first coach. My mom and my grandma. My defense story started in the backyard with them hitting ground balls and throwing the ball to me.

I’d say the most impactful defensive work and things that I’ve learned that we try to implement a lot in our program came from my time in college at North Carolina Central. We had some really good drills and really defensive work that we did during practice.

Mark: What are the things that you’re drilling into kids?

Nelson: The first thing we do is really making sure that the kids understand the importance of each rep that they’re taking. We prefer for them to take high-level reps, fewer high-level reps than a massive amount of reps.

When we step on the field, we have all of our players line their gloves up on the line. Not because that means anything in terms of defensive excellence. However, I do think it means something in terms of discipline.

And we drill this to our kids: Take those reps when you’re warming up and instead of just kind of tossing aimlessly, really practice to make sure you’re throwing accurately with proper mechanics.

About Pittsburgh Hardball Academy

* Founded in 2020 by Nelson Cooper IV and Brian Jacobson

* Program run primarily by volunteer coaches

* Created to make high-level baseball more accessible to low-income families

* Alumni are playing at junior colleges, NAIA, and NCAA schools

Then, as the receiver of the ball, we have them implementing some sort of athletic game-like movement into their throwing routine. So if one player is throwing and just getting loose, that guy catching a ball or receiving the ball can move their feet like they’re taking a relay and throw through, or they can catch the ball and put a tag down.

We make sure every time we throw a ball on the field, it’s thrown with intent. That’s a big word in our program. We want them to make sure that there’s intent in all of their actions, even from starting our warmups.

We do drill work every day. So if it’s a pick series, if it’s just fielding the ball, getting to a proper throwing position to ensure that kids have their weight properly distributed after they field the ball, if it’s funneling the ball, if it’s throwing overheads to outfielders, making sure they’re taking proper routes, catching the ball, shuffling their feet, all those different things.

The one thing that we always like to end with after doing regimented drill work or regimented positional work is some fun aspect of the defensive practice.

One thing that’s been very successful for us, and I think the kids really like it, is trying to have 5-10 minutes at the end of all of that drill practice to make highlight plays or Web Gems.

So we’ll hit balls that are either unreachable or very difficult, encourage the kids to lay out for a ball or to try something new to field it. We try to make the highlight plays more routine. So the more that you’re able to make those highlight plays in practice, the more when those unexpected situations come in the game that it becomes a routine play for the players.

Baseball can be. challenging and very mentally draining. But if you give them the space to have a little bit of fun in the game, I think they can really grow and become great defenders. We tell our kids that if they limit their mistakes in high school, they’re gonna win games.

Mark: What are the things that the younger players have the hardest time picking up?

Nelson: Sometimes we have kids that are starting at 15 or 16 years old that haven’t had the skill or the development training from a very young age.

They’re going from more of a recreational background into a travel organization. It’s a kind of a jump for them. I think the biggest thing some kids struggle with is knowing the pace of the game.

You don’t have to be super quick to make plays. You don’t have to go very fast. You just need to be efficient in your movement.

So you don’t have to sprint out the ball and run through it and make a throw on the run every time. But you have to be able to read the ball, read the runner, and know how to stay under control and move as quickly as you can within the constraints of your body.

So if you’re super athletic, maybe you can move a little bit quicker than someone who’s not. But being able to utilize your body as efficient as possible, doesn’t mean you have to always go as fast as possible. But that also doesn’t mean you want to go very slow and methodical.

So I think it’s difficult for kids to understand that, particularly coming from the background that they are. We try to work through those things, and we tell them over and over that you want to work quickly. You want to be able to attack the ball, get into good positions, but you need to stay under control, have some body control and make sure you control your movements on the field,

Mark: Is that a hard thing to teach given that a lot of these kids are still going through physical growth?

Nelson: Oh yeah. It’s way easier for me to say that than it is for them to actually execute it.

We’ve had some kids now that we started with that started at 13, now they’re 17, 18, and you can see over time, consistent messaging, consistent practice allows those kids to be able to develop those skills.

I think that’s the hardest thing with baseball compared to some of the other sports. You have to be able to rein in your athleticism at times and be able to use it in controlled movements.

Mark: Are there any things that have happened recently that articulate good lessons in defensive excellence?

Nelson: I’ll give you a good example of blending the two things that we that we were just talking about, the reining in the athleticism part.

One just happened about a week ago. We have a 13-year-old-kid and the first time I saw him field, I was like ‘This kid’s gonna be special.’

He had the natural ability to chop his feet to slow down to field the ground ball while still moving through it and putting his feet in good position. There’s a ground ball hit to him and he bobbled the ball.

We usually teach our kids that if they bobble the ball to pick it up and do a full-arm fake to see if they could try to get another runner out. If you full-arm fake, you might be able to catch a runner off guard.

Well, this very athletic kid bobbled the ball, picked it up and just immediately went into like a Derek Jeter jump throw across the infield with the batter almost at first base.

He made a throw that was right on the money. Maybe it wasn’t the best decision to make the throw, so a learning moment for him, but a learning moment for us as coaches, as I would never have known that the kid could make that play if he didn’t make it in practice.

I think that’s one thing that we can learn from coaching: Let them be athletic to a certain extent and see what they can do, but obviously try to rein in and put it in the most efficient package as possible.

Mark: If you could fix something about what kids are taught with regards to playing defense, what would that be?

Nelson: I would have kids be more aggressive defensively at a younger age. A lot of times, particularly in the outfield, you see kids run up to the ball and they just let it drop at their feet instead of leaving their feet to try to slide and make a catch. And I think it comes from the shock of maybe a time when they dove for it and it got past them and went to the fence.

Kids are definitely gonna make errors. Pros, make errors, everybody makes errors. But there should be a space for kids to really understand that they can still be aggressive to the ball. Teach that from a young age, that even if you make that mistake, you still have to stay aggressive because the only way to really consistently make outs is to be aggressive to the ball.

Mark: What about the idea of letting athletes be athletes?

Nelson: You can’t just let kids run wild on the field. But I think you should make space to allow those higher-level players or those more athletic players to try to make great plays when necessary. If that ball is way up the middle and the only way you can make that plays to lay out or to dive or try to pick through it or do something, great, do it. However, on routine balls, let’s just make the routine play.

And I’ve always said, you don’t need to be flashy. The flashiest thing to a scout or to a coach is a high fielding percentage.

And then once we’re able to conquer or master the easy, then we can move on to the next thing.

Mark: How are you doing and how are the kids doing for resources?

Nelson: We always we always are looking for additional resources. I think we’ve been able to develop some pretty high-level infielders. A lot of that is because of the public parks we use in Pittsburgh, where we’re grateful to be able to permit the fields.

But some of the kids don’t have a choice: either catch the ball or get hit by it. You can’t move out of the way of a ground ball because a coach will yell at you. So you better figure out a way to catch it.

I think field access and field quality builds a little bit of character for our kids and the character of our program.

We’re a non-profit organization. Brian Jacobson and I started this organization a few years ago to give more access and opportunity to kids who otherwise may not have had it, particularly underserved kids.

Our kids are highly diverse with a majority being African American.. African Americans are severely underrepresented in baseball.

We’ve also had situations from parents who reached out and said ‘We have financial resources and we’re willing to help the organization. We want our kids to grow up in a diverse environment with diverse friends.’ And that has been a blessing for our organizations.

Our program is pretty much Brian and I, and primarily run by volunteer coaches. We’re able to work with more than 100 kids a year through this program.

We’re always looking to partner with other organizations, always looking for donations, either financial or equipment, or sponsorships as well for our organization to help, continue to grow and be able to impact kids in the greater Pittsburgh region.

Since starting the program in 2020, we’ve had more than 25 kids have the opportunity to continue their academic and athletic careers at the collegiate level. So it’s a really neat program and we’re always looking for people or organizations that can help us grow our mission

To learn more about Pittsburgh Hardball Academy, visit PittsburghHardball.org. Portions of this interview have been edited for clarity and length.

August 16, 2022

Defensive Excellence: Q&A: Darren Fenster (Red Sox minor league infield coordinator)

This is the second in a series of interviews with people from different backgrounds who teach defense at different levels from scholastic to college to the pros. Our previous interview with Hawaii high school coaching legend Dunn Muramaru can be found here.

Darren Fenster is the minor league infield coordinator for the Red Sox. He’s previously been the team’s minor league outfield and baserunning coordinator and a minor league manager, as well as a coach for the 2020 Olympic baseball team.

Darren’s passion is teaching baseball to people of all ages – his Twitter handle is @CoachYourKids. In this interview, Darren talks about teaching principles of defensive excellence.

Mark: What does defensive excellence mean to you?

Darren: The short answer is the ability to change a game with your glove. Obviously, you could go down into some different depths of that, but when you talk about excellence, I think that’s the ultimate. Being an elite defender is your ability to change a game defensively with your glove.

And I think that looks a little bit different for infielders as it might for outfielders. I’m the infield coordinator for the Red Sox now, but I was the outfield coordinator the previous three years.

Understanding infield allowed me to look at outfield in a completely different light and then understanding different parts of outfield really kind of shifted a lot of my belief system when it came back to doing a lot of the stuff on the infield side. So for both, when you’re talking about elite defenders, I think your foundation is, are you reliable?

Do you make the routine play routinely? No matter how many highlight-reel plays you make, if you can’t be relied upon to make that routine play every single time, then I don’t think you can be considered an elite defender. I don’t think that it’s defensive excellence if the foundation isn’t there for an infielder.

There is an intellect aspect of defensive excellence. You combine those two in good decisions. Are they in the area where they’re throwing the ball to the right base? Are they fearless in not being afraid to make a challenging play? Others may not be comfortable even thinking about—let alone trying to make—a challenging play.

You think about like a guy like Nolan Arenado and the things that he’s able to do at third base. He’s a complete game changer. And he makes so many different plays in so many ways. And part of that is, obviously, he’s very talented, but there’s some athleticism there and there’s some instinct there that allows him to do some things that a lot of guys won’t even try and he’s the best defensive third baseman of this generation.

I think on the infield side that there’s also obviously an athleticism aspect. So I think the infield is more cerebral, in addition to all of those fundamental physical skills.

And then on the outfield side, I just think about an elite defender as being someone who’s just flying all over the place making plays that most guys don’t make, like Jackie Bradley Jr. or Kevin Kiermaier. On our minor league side, there’s Ceddanne Rafaela (in Double-A) who is cut from that same cloth, where he’s doing things in the outfield you don’t teach.

You look up and they’re already running full speed. They get incredible jumps. They have the instinct for the breaks and for the routes and all those sorts of things. And they just cover a ton of ground, and they turn that 50-50 play into outs more than those drop for hits. They’re able to shut down the extra base whether it be by just sheer effort of getting on the ball as quick as they can by being able to be athletic with their feet and be able to be accurate with their arms. For me, that’s the epitome of outfield play.

Mark: How do you integrate everything you just talked about into teaching kids how to play defense?

Darren: It starts with the fundamentals.

Andy Fox was our infield coordinator prior to his jumping on the big-league staff this year. And I remember my very first year with the organization in 2012, one of the first days of spring training, Andy grabbed 10 of our infielders.

He was just doing these very simple hand rolls that guys were not missing. And it was just so easy.

I asked Andy if we could give them more challenging reps than what we’re doing right now. And he said absolutely. But this is the foundational stuff that we need to get ingrained into guys’ systems so that they have the good habits for when we do have the more challenging types of reps and the more challenging types of plays, they have a foundation from which to build off.

Those fundamental reps were complete game-changers in terms of being able to help make guys fundamentally sound, and I was completely hooked on the importance of foundational reps that allow you to focus on something as simple as glove angle, where you’re turning your glove into the biggest area for the ball to go in.

I use the expression, ‘We don’t catch raindrops.’ If you think about how you would catch a raindrop, that’s what we would call a flat glove versus if your fingers were down. There’s way more area for the ball to go into the glove and just something as simple as that can make a huge difference in a guy’s ability to play defense.

Whether it be on the infield or on the outfield body position, you know how you’re bending at your knees, how you’re hinging at your waist, how your feet are working through the ball, all those little things that you can isolate in foundational drill work can get ingrained into a guy’s system and that opens up a multitude of things for them to be able to do.

I believe that if they do not have that base, then it’s gonna be a really inconsistent road as you kind of work your way up and try to develop into a reliable and eventually, hopefully an elite defender.

Mark: Another phrase you emphasize is “Engage the game.” What does that mean?

Darren: It starts with your pre-pitch. Are you consistently putting yourself in an athletic position to get a great first step, every single pitch for 150 pitches a night? And so it may sound simple but think about the mental focus that you need to be able to do that over the course of (a year).

Engaging the game is just understanding the situation, understanding the scoreboard, meaning that if there’s a man on, where am I supposed to be on a certain type of ball and where am I supposed to throw the ball?

When you are constantly teaching that side of the game – and that might be in between innings when a guy makes a good decision, when a guy makes a bad decision, when you’re consistent with that teaching aspect in the same way that you’re consistent teaching the physical aspects, now we’re kind of tag-teaming the two parts of defensive play that are required to become an elite defender.

And those apply on the infield side as well as the outfield side equally. I think the consistency of teaching that part of the game is just as important as teaching the physical aspect consistently.

Mark: Isiah Kiner-Falefa talked on our podcast about learning every position. Can you speak to that?

Darren: I don’t know when this happened, but people got stuck on a position saying, ‘Hey, I’m only a shortstop. I’m only a center fielder, I’m only a catcher.’

The example that I would always use would be if you were a minor leaguer who played shortstop coming up with the Yankees, you weren’t going to play shortstop (with Derek Jeter there). So you were either gonna get traded or you had to be open to playing a different position.

When you learn how to play different positions, you’re giving your manager, you’re giving your coach different options on how to use you. If Alex Cora or any coach has interchangeable parts, then game-to-game, they can fit the pieces in different ways to put their best puzzle together every night.

When guys move off shortstop, I always love to use the expression, ‘If you move to second base, you’re not a second baseman, if you move to third base, you’re not a third baseman. You’re a shortstop playing second or playing third.’

Shortstop is the spot on the infield where you have to be most active with your feet. You can’t be lazy, pre-pitch. You always have to be moving, mentally engaged, and knowing so much about so many different things.

And I think if you keep that same type of mindset, when you move off shortstop, now, all of a sudden, you’re playing different spots with the athleticism at shortstop that puts you now in a position to be an above average defender at those other spots.

I think the physicality of being able to play different spots, the mental side of being able to play other spots just provides so much more value for you as a player. In the sense of how you’re allowing a manager to use you.

Mark: If you could fix one thing about how people at a young age are taught defense, what would it be?

Darren: A lot of kids are ingrained on a very fundamental base, everything perfect with two hands and being very ‘textbook’ in how to field ground balls. And that’s a really good thing.

I played for Fred Hill at Rutgers, an old-school baseball guy. Everything was two-handed, everything was fundamentally sound.

When Rey Ordóñez first came up with the Mets, he had a signature play where he would slide to catch the ball, and in one motion, would catch the ball, pop up and fire across the diamond.

I taught myself how to make that play. And my freshman fall at Rutgers, I make that play during a practice and Coach Hill says, ‘Pretty nice play, Darren. Make it again and your ass is gonna be on the bench. Make the play the right way.’

Now with some perspective, I think that fundamental approach took away from the athleticism that a Nolan Arenado plays with. Nolan knows how to make fundamental plays, but he’s an artist with how he does stuff, in that he does stuff that coaches wouldn’t teach.

I’ve come to an understanding now, being around it over the last 20-plus years on the professional level and then with those six years in the middle as a college coach, to be able to understand how athleticism opens up so many different options on how you might be able to make a play.

I wish more kids would be able to be exposed to (that) at an early level. Yes, you need that fundamental base, but I think guys need to be given the option – to let athletes be athletes.

That doesn’t mean you turn what should be a fundamental play into ridiculous highlight-reel play when it doesn’t need to. But I think when you give guys that option to be able to show off their athleticism, now, all of a sudden, you’re able to build something off that foundational base.

The better athletes can make better plays. And the more ways a guy can make a play, the better of an infielder that they’re going to be.

We’ll drill something with two hands and the very next rep would be one hand, and then we go back to two hands, and sometimes it’s setting our feet up to throw, sometimes it’s everything on the run. And these are all with the same exact types of ground balls.

It’s to help guys understand that they have options and to allow their athleticism to shine through to find the best option for them to make a play. And I think that gets taken away when guys are ingrained in the idea that you’re only allowed to be a fundamental player. And sometimes it takes time to get them out of making the play perfectly when they’ve been hammered on it for so many years. It takes some time to build off that, for them to get out of.

Mark: Last thing: Can you give me an example of a player that you could point to and say: that guy did a great job of learning how to play defense?

Darren: Carlos Asuaje opened the season as a utility-guy backup playing three, four days a week.

He started to swing the bat well and that provided him more opportunities. He never played third base before. He had this bad habit of letting the ball play him.

And so he would constantly turn routine ground balls into base hits because he would backtrack on the ball such that his body would be going into left field when he would have to make a throw in the complete opposite direction. It took a long time to get the backtracking out of his system.

At one point he went to go get the ball and he made an error. It was what I would call an aggressive error. And when he came into the dugout, he was pissed off about making an error.

I went up to him and I gave him a big hug because I was so excited because that was like one of those moments where it clicked for him, even though he didn’t make the play, it clicked for him in terms of going after the ball the right way. Slowly but surely, those plays became routine outs.

To see that progress, weeks and months in the making, that’s what defense is. It’s about being able to progress in that manner. It was a credit to him for putting the work in, and by being able to isolate a specific type of play over and over in a practice setting, over time it does translate.

He wasn’t a star major leaguer, but he got to the big leagues as someone who, I don’t think a lot of people ever thought that he would’ve made it. To see that all happen was really exciting.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length

June 22, 2022
Q&A: Hawaii Baseball Coaching Legend Dunn Muramaru

Dunn Muramaru is a high school baseball coach (and former math teacher) at Mid-Pacific Institute in Hawaii, where he’s coached since 1987. Muramaru, who is of Japanese heritage, has more than 40 years experience coaching baseball and has had a long run of success in producing Division I and MLB-level talent.

He’s considered one of the legendary high school baseball coaches in the state. One of his star alumni is Yankees Gold Glove-winning shortstop Isiah Kiner-Falefa.

Since one of our company’s pillars is in promoting defensive excellence and to honor Asian-American/Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we talked to Muramaru to learn how he teaches defense.

The interview below has been edited for clarity and length.

Mark: How do you define defensive excellence?

Coach Muramaru: Making the plays. You’re supposed to make the routine plays. Sometimes you make a great play, but it’s mostly just making the plays you’re supposed to make so that you have a baseline to work with. That’s basically what it is.

Mark: And when you’re teaching it to 15 to 18 year old kids, what are the keys that you’re teaching to work towards defensive excellence?

Coach Muramaru: One is throwing, throwing actively all the time. It’s gotta become a habit. Even when we warm up before practice, we have our pitching coach go out there and he just stands there and watches. So there’s someone watching them all the time.

And it’s just about getting good habits.

When I play catch with them, I (throw) to the little space just below their neck, and I say this a habit, I do it all the time and they notice.

I don’t have a bad throw in my mind. If it’s not in your brain [to throw well], then you won’t make it right. As Napoleon Hill said: ‘What the mind of man can conceive and believe he shall achieve.’

So whatever is in your head, it comes out. So in that way, we try to create habits. I try to dispel the errors. I tell them when I make an out, I run past first base, I’m coming back to the dugout and it is already gone.

We practice the routine, like, okay, you acknowledge the error, you turn around, you get rid of it. And then you see yourself making a good play. It’s connecting the mental part with the physical part.

I liken it to guys shooting free throws. They dribble twice. They come set by the waist and then they put it in. Watch Stephen Curry shoot free throws. He does the same thing over and over and over again. And the guys that are shooting poorly, they do things a little bit different every time.

Mark: What is your origin story for coaching and understanding things like that?

Coach Muramaru: I never played college baseball. I played high school. I always played semi-pro and I had some really good mentors. There was Pop Eldredge. He’s a legend. He was a grandfather type. I learned to love the game because of him. I got to play for legends in Hawaii like Dick Kitamura and Masa Yonamine. This one guy Carlton Hanta: He’s in the Hall of Fame at the University of Houston. He came back and coached us. He taught me to do a lot of stuff, like hitting a fungo properly.

And then, I just put my own spin on stuff.

Mark: Isaiah Kiner-Falefa said that you taught him discipline, technique, and character. I’m curious what you would say about teaching that.

Coach Muramaru: Discipline is that you’ve got to do the same things every day that you’re supposed to do.

I used to watch Bobby Knight. One of his teams practiced here (during a tournament in Hawaii). It was very enlightening. He has a bad reputation but he’s a teacher. So I took stuff from watching that. It’s about how much you want what you teach to sink in.

There’s a level of peaking, right?

You have A level, B level, C level. Sometimes they are not capable of getting the A’s. So you got to settle for the B plus or the C, but maybe you can raise them up the ladder higher.

Mark: What skills and traits does Isiah have that have allowed him to be so good?

Coach Muramaru: He’s very quiet. He plays very quiet. You don’t even notice him there. He’s not flashy. He does the job. If the ground ball goes there, he’s going to get the out. Though in our state championship game, he made a play, dove up the middle and flipped it to second [for the force]. That saved us.

Mark: When you’re teaching middle infielders at high school age, is there anything beyond the repetition that you really focus on?

Coach Muramaru: We teach them to read hops.

I took some ground balls the other day and I was trying to see what I see when the ball comes off the bat.

What I came up with was this thing called Elastic Man.

I tell the kids: Get your hands out. Some of you just get your hands out and have no reason. So I told them to make believe they were Elastic Man and that their arms could go as far as you like.

I said to them ‘Where would your hands be?’ (when the ball is hit) and they say ‘Over here’ [out wide]

And I said no. Your hands would be out right where the ball is hit – the contact point. But since your hands can’t be there, you have to use your eyes as your hands and you have to follow the ball all the way, using your eyes.

Your hands would be out right where the ball is hit – the contact point. But since your hands can’t be there, you have to use your eyes as your hands and you have to follow the ball all the way, using your eyes.

So then we hit some ground balls and a kid said ‘Coach, the ball looks slower now.’

The other thing we tell them is ‘Field the whole line.’

If I hit a ground ball, there’s a line that comes to you. You field the whole line. Sometimes a kid fields a ground ball and just fields it at the spot where they catch the ball. We tell them field the entire line of the ball. Follow the ball as if it’s a line at you. Field the whole line. Keep the glove down a little longer, pick it, and go.

We also do stuff with hops. Guys would spot hops using a yellow ball. And then we can ask them, what kind of hop would you have gotten if you came up on the ball? Then, we counted hops. Anything to see the ball a little farther out in front.

Mark: You’ve taken teams to Japan and had Japanese teams come visit yours. What was that like?

Coach Muramaru: I was in Japan in 1993 and I wanted to see a real practice. So we drove up a mountain and I’m wondering where the heck is the field. And then we walked down what was like a volcanic crater. And there’s 100 kids. I’m walking down and the practice stops. They all bow to me.

And I’m watching their practice. Talk about discipline. They had two coaches for 100 kids. It’s like it was all self-run. In, out, in, out. I asked the translator: ‘Where’s the golf cart to fix the infield?’ He points to 60 rakes [(the kids raked the field)].

In 2020, a team came to visit us. They lined up their bags. I don’t know that the Marines could line them up any nicer. Their shoes are put on so nicely. I thought we had a pretty good team, but they beat us 7-2. They were good. They could have beaten us 20-2.

Mark: Do you have any other players coming up that we should be aware of?

Coach Muramaru. We’ve got shortstops.

We’ve got one right now with the Mets in Triple-A. Wyatt Young. That guy has earned everything he’s ever gotten. If he makes it to the major leagues, he’d be one of the greatest stories. He’s 5-foot-6. Junior year of high school he hit something like .212. Before they put in rules about this, he’d go and work out in our weight room with his dad at 4 AM while I was walking my dog. And he’d hit, and hit, and hit, and hit.

He got to Pepperdine and got invited to the Cape Cod League as a temporary guy to fill in for guys playing in the College World Series. He ends up making the All-Star team. He hit .339.

He came home and told me something funny. He went to the All-Star Game and the guys from Georgia, LSU, South Carolina are all asking him about his approach.

And he’s thinking, shouldn’t I be asking them?

To learn more about Dunn Muramaru, read this tribute to him at the Mid-Pacific Institute website.

May 12, 2022